Guns in public buildings closer to approval

HB 2320, approved by the Appropriations Committee on a 5-3 vote, would overturn existing laws making it a crime to ignore a “no weapons” sign on a building. Instead, anyone with a state-issued permit to carry a concealed weapon could remain armed.

The measure, which now goes to the full Senate, says the only time a person could be stopped is if the local government agency installs metal detectors at each entrance and hires guards to monitor them.

Sen. Sylvia Allen, R-Snowflake, said it makes sense to provide that right to concealed-weapon permit holders. She said they have been through background checks and special training.

But Sen. Steve Farley, D-Tucson, said there’s less to that training than there used to be since lawmakers several years ago eliminated instructions on when it’s appropriate to shoot.

The result, Farley said, is 15 other states with their own concealed-weapon laws, including Nevada, refuse to recognize the Arizonan permits.

“That is just rubbish,” Allen shot back. She said the fact that someone got an Arizona permit shows that person is a law-abiding citizen who should have the right to self-defense.

“People out there breaking the law are not taking the time to get a permit,” Allen continued. “They just go do it.”

She said, “The people who care about this want to do it right, do go through the trouble of getting a permit. I don’t care what Nevada says.”

The same committee also approved a measure requiring Arizona to enter into compacts with other states agreeing not to enact any laws or regulations regulating the transfer of firearms that are more restrictive than federal laws.

HB 2431, sponsored by Rep. Bob Thorpe, R-Flagstaff, is designed to block future legislatures, or even future voters, from any act requiring background checks before one individual could sell a gun to another.

Now, federal laws require such checks only when a sale is made by a registered gun dealer.

And the House, in separate action, approved HB 2527 and sent it to Gov. Doug Ducey, barring cities from enacting their own local regulations requiring background checks.

That is specifically aimed at Tucson, which has an ordinance requiring such checks when gun shows are conducted at city-owned facilities.

Since that rule was put in place, however, gun-show operators have moved their operations to privately owned sites where the city ordinance does not apply. If this measure becomes law, they could once again return to the Tucson Convention Center and ignore the city ordinance.

The issue of guns in public buildings comes down to a question of who needs protection, and where.

“Ultimately, that’s what this is about, a self-defense wherever you are,” said Rep. Brenda Barton, R-Payson, the sponsor of the legislation. “You never know when something’s going to happen.”

Sen. John Kavanagh, R-Fountain Hills, said that can include public buildings.

He said “no weapons” signs are useless at keeping out people with guns who don’t care about breaking the law. He said that if they worked, there would be no need for metal detectors and guards at airports.

Proponents said the measure ensures that either everyone is disarmed because of the metal detectors, or that those with permits can remain armed to protect themselves from those who ignore the signs.

Barton said opposition to her legislation is based solely on an emotional “hatred of guns.”

“If it’s laying on the table, it’s a horrible thing and it’s going to jump up and do something,” she said. “But we know it’s not going to do anything unless there’s a human involved.”

But Kristin Cipolla, lobbyist for the County Supervisors Association, said the concerns are more concrete.

She said there are places where guns are inappropriate, and this legislation means the only way government agencies can keep their buildings gun-free is to spend tax dollars on metal detectors and guards — money she said some of her counties do not have.

“How does this bill force the counties to do that?” asked Sen. Debbie Lesko, R-Peoria. She said there is another option: Let the nearly 232,000 Arizonans who have weapons permits keep their guns.

Farley, however, said there are times and places where passions run high, including court hearings and even zoning cases, where weapons should not be allowed.