Arizona secretary of state candidates argue over security of elections

"They've been safe and secure for a long time,'' incumbent Democrat Adrian Fontes said during a half-hour televised debate Monday on KAET-TV.

But Republican challenger Alexander Kolodin repeatedly dodged the question from moderator Ted Simons about whether they are secure. Instead, the Scottsdale lawmaker said the issue is voter perception.

"There's no doubt that confidence in our elections here in Arizona is at an all-time low,'' Kolodin said. "And the responsibility of that sits squarely on the shoulders of Secretary Fontes.''

Fontes, seeking a second four-year term as the state's chief election officer, disputed that contention. But he told Kolodin that if there are people who have lost faith in election accuracy, he should consider his own role in that.

Fontes said that started with Kolodin challenging the results of the 2020 election as an attorney representing election deniers. 

In one such challenge, U.S. District Court Judge Diane Humetewa said what Kolodin presented was "sorely wanting of relevant or reliable evidence.''

"The various affidavits and expert reports are largely based on anonymous witnesses, hearsay, and irrelevant analysis of unrelated elections,'' Humetewa continued at the time. "Allegations that find favor in the public sphere of gossip and innuendo cannot be a substitute for the earnest pleadings and procedure in federal court.''

Kolodin was placed on probation for 18 months by the State Bar of Arizona for his role in that case and others and had to complete five legal programs, most of them relating to the ethical requirements for lawyers, including one on the filing of "meritorious claims'' and another on "fairness to opposing parties and counsel.''

"You are one of the folks who was the architect of the 'Big Lie' here in Arizona,'' Fontes said directly to Kolodin during the Monday debate.

"You're the one who has caused the misinformation and distrust,'' Fontes continued. "You're like the arsonist who causes the fire and then says you're going to come in and cure things.''

Kolodin, for his part, attacked Fontes for his role in fighting various efforts he said will make elections more secure by ensuring that only people who are citizens are registered.

In one case, Kolodin had to get an order from a federal judge for Fontes to turn over records he is required by law to have about his obligation to maintain accurate voter rolls.

More recently, Fontes has fought efforts by the Trump administration to get possession of unredacted state voter rolls. Those rolls include not just information that is public, including name, address and party registration, but also the last four digits of a voter's Social Security number.

Kolodin said he didn't understand why Fontes would object.

"The private information Mr. Fontes said he was trying to protect from the federal government? Social Security numbers,'' he said. "You know who issues those Social Security numbers? The federal government.''

And since the feds have that, Kolodin said Fontes "has wasted taxpayer dollars on a court fight.''

Kolodin acknowledged, however, that Fontes actually won that fight, with federal judges rejecting the administration's bid for that information — not only in Arizona but in close to two dozen other states. But he said the U.S. Supreme Court has yet to weigh in.

The two contenders also had different ideas about efforts by the Trump administration to get the U.S. Postal Service to refuse to deliver mail ballots to voters in states that refuse to provide information that would go into a federal database.

Fontes has gone to court — along with election officials in other states — to block the regulations.

As for Kolodin, "I have a way to make sure our voter rolls are clean without having to give any information whatsoever to the federal government,'' the Republican challenger said, without directly responding to the question.

All that leads into what has become a major dispute over mail-in voting, something that has proven extremely popular in Arizona, with upwards of 80% of ballots cast by mail.

President Donald Trump has repeatedly questioned whether mail voting is subject to fraud while not providing any evidence it is. In fact, he has continued to put his own ballot in the mail, including this year in Florida's Republican primary.

Kolodin is the sponsor of Proposition 144, which will be on Arizona's November ballot. One key provision would require people to produce identification before casting any ballot.

He insisted, however, it wouldn't automatically kill mail-in voting. "It's not true,'' Kolodin said of that claim.

But he would not say how it would work for mail-in voters. And there is nothing in the ballot measure providing any answers.

Fontes said it would be "impossible'' to administer mail-in voting if Prop. 144 is approved.

"People are going to have to go take their ballot in instead of putting it in the mail,'' he said.

The only other plausible alternative, Fontes said, would be for those who still want to vote by mail to have to include a photocopy of their identity documents and submit them with their ballots.

"I mean, who has a photocopier at their house?'' he asked. "It's unworkable, it's unreasonable.''

Anyway, Fontes said, there is voter identification of mail ballots.

Election workers are required to compare the signatures on ballot envelopes with other samples they already have on file. If they match, the envelope is opened, and the vote is counted. If there is any question, election workers can contact voters and ask them to provide further information.

That process came under question, however, when Republican Kari Lake challenged her loss in the 2022 gubernatorial race.

A legal expert called by her attorneys testified that about 274,000 signatures on early ballots were compared in less than three seconds, with about 70,000 in two seconds or less. That, Lake's lawyers argued, showed there really was no verification.

But Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Peter Thompson said Lake failed to prove that Maricopa County did not review the signatures on ballot envelopes. He said the amount of time election workers spent on them is legally irrelevant.

And Fontes on Monday said he believes those mail-in ballots are secure.

"Those folks that check those signatures check more signatures than the FBI agents who do their signature checking,'' he said. "As a matter of fact, they get trained by the same people.''

Still, Fontes conceded, mistakes can be made.

"Are they human beings? Yes,'' he said. "But the reality is these folks are asking for perfection when we've already got great elections in Arizona.''

Kolodin filed suit in 2022 on behalf of the Arizona Republican Party, asking judges to kill mail-in voting, arguing that anything other than voting in person, and on Election Day, is unconstitutional. He did not succeed. 

Of note is that no-excuse early voting did not exist in Arizona until 1991, when the Republican-controlled Legislature approved the change in law.